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Subject: Re: [OT] Why there are so few New Grads who want to do
Author: Jason Krantz
Date: 2008-04-18 23:57:32

For what it's worth, here's my (US-centric) take on the subject:

I got my master's degree in 2005, so I'm semi-fresh-out-of-school. When
I was a student, FEA was broached for the first time at the 400 level
(mixed seniors and grad students), so only a small number of students
were exposed to FEA, and only late in their undergrad careers. That's
not necessarily a bad thing, but I can confirm that the vast majority of
undergrads were entirely unaware of the existence of the finite element
method and FEA software.

When I spoke to some of those undergrads, I was horrified to learn that
many of them saw an engineering degree as a stepping stone to either an
MBA or a law degree (for those who wanted to be patent attorneys).
Sadly, I think that engineering students who have no particular interest
in engineering are quite common.

Maybe it sounds daft, but I decided to become an engineer for the
romance of it all. It's hard to convey exactly what that romance is, but
it's captured pretty well by several scenes in *Apollo 13.* I also got a
major push in the direction of engineering when I read a book called
*Ship of Gold in the Deep Blue Sea,* which is about an engineer named
Tommy Thompson who developed very creative methods for salvaging
deepwater shipwrecks. Those *Apollo 13* scenes also inspired the popular
engineering-oriented TV show "Junkyard Wars," so I wasn't the only one
who liked them.

In promoting engineering to female undergrads, the Society of Women
Engineers likes to emphasize aspects of engineering that are absolutely
vital, but that don't get a lot of press: creativity, communication and
teamwork. I think the FEA community would do well to appropriate some of
these ideas.

I've often heard jokes about how FEA used to be done (and sometimes
still is) by the hairy, fat, smelly guy in the corner who doesn't talk
much. As FEA is used more widely by industry in general, I would hope
that it starts to be seen as an important and *interactive* component in
any engineering effort. FEA is no longer something that's sent off to
another department and returns with a simple pass/fail status; it's
often an iterative process that requires lots of communication between
analysts, generalist engineers, CAD operators, materials specialists and
management. Furthermore, analysts need to convey their results
effectively; an accurate, fast and clever analysis is not much good if
no one but the analyst understands what it means.

In my humble opinion, there are some reasons to be optimistic. I got my
engineering degree from the University of Wisconsin-Madison, but not
from the ME department--from the Engineering Mechanics department. At
least at Wisconsin, this program tended to attract students who were
more creative and less interested in the plug-and-chug approach. EM was
pitched to students as math-and-physics-heavy and a way to get on an R&D
track. Many schools have or are developing programs like this, whether
as separate departments or within existing ones.

An entire school advocates a similar approach: the Olin College of
Engineering (http://www.olin.edu). It's fairly new, but it takes a very
interesting tack: Olin's web site emphasizes their stance that "learning
and doing go together from the start" and how Olin values "nurturing
creativity and inventiveness." My understanding is that Olin is
attracting very strong students; I would hope (and expect) that these
students would find FEA a tool worth using and understanding well.

Cheers,

Jason


P.S. Unsolicited opinions: Undergrad engineering degrees are effectively
five-year degrees, even if that's not the party line. I think that
students and corporations would be better served if this were formally
acknowledged--say, five years of coursework plus 6-12 months of co-op
time equals an M.S. in engineering (some schools already do this). I'd
even like to see a new kind of four-year undergrad degree: a B.S. in
something like "engineering studies." This would be roughly analagous to
a pre-med major. This would allow the business-and-law-school population
to learn what they need to while creating more "pure" engineering
classes for those interested in the subject itself. But that's entirely
off-topic.


-----------------------------------
Jason Krantz
Senior Mechanical Engineer
Mechanical Simulation
Phoenix Analysis & Design Technologies
jason.krantz_at_padtinc.com
480-813-4884 x145

-----Original Message-----
From: xansys-bounces_at_xansys.org [mailto:xansys-bounces_at_xansys.org] On
Behalf Of Kyle Stoker
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:25 PM
To: ANSYS User Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Xansys] [OT] Why there are so few New Grads who want to do
Simulation

All,

It seems as though it would be appropriate for someone who is entering
into the workforce in a year (hopefully) to weigh in on this issue. I
am somewhat new to the simulation aspect of engineering, as my
master???s research has focused primarily on simulating gear wear using
a numerical analysis. Up until that point I had little to no experience
in this field. I???ve enjoyed reading the xansys postings because they
serve as a reality check on the work that I am doing.

In response to Eric???s post, he is completely correct. There was
little to no emphasis on simulation during my undergraduate coursework.
Throughout my undergraduate career I had a variety of different
professors with different approaches to their teaching methods. Some
were plug and chug while others stressed the necessity of understanding
the physics behind the problem???a necessary skill for ANSYS users.
These teachers obviously had the greatest impact on my understanding
when it came to my graduate research.

In my opinion, I???m not sure if the lack of engineering graduates who
want to perform simulations stems from the attraction or glory of being
an engineer. I think that if the industry needs more engineers capable
of performing competent simulation, this should be more of a focus
during the 5 years spent as an undergrad. Of course, this is only my
narrow observation from what I have experienced, and may not be typical.

Overall, we need as many engineers as we can possibly have. I would
encourage my kids to do so!

Kyle Stoker
University of Florida
Masters candidate
Structural and Multidisciplinary Optimization Group




On Thu Apr 17 19:12:12 EDT 2008, eric.miller_at_cox.net wrote:

>
> Dear all,
> Well, things seem to be stable, but there has not been enough traffic
> to really work things out.
> Discussing couples and beam elements doesn't seem to have an effect,
> so I thought I'd through something out there to get a good discussion
> going. We can all agree to beat this horse to death until tommorow
> evening.
> KEEP THINGS PROFESIONAL AND NO ATTACKS. Don't make me feel quilty for
> bringing this up.
> Many of our customers are complainging that they can not find enough
> quality new graduates who want to focus on simulation for their
> career, especially at the graduat level and especially when you
> require US Citizens.
> Questions to the group:
> 1: Do you see the same thing in your industry/country?
> 2: If so, why do you think?
> My oppinion for the US: (warning: old man "not like it used to be"
> rant comming) There just is not the attraction or glory of being an
> engineer.
> After WWII it was a way for anyone who was smart to move up the
> economic structure. Now, smart students don't want to become
> engineers, they want to go into finance and/or business.
> Or maybe I'm generalizing.
> Eric
>
> =--------------
> Eric Miller - PADT, Inc.
> ^--------------------------------------------------------
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>
>



--
Kyle Stoker

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Posts possibly associated with message #92919AuthorDateScore
92883[OT] Why there are so few New Grads who want to doEric Miller2008/04/17 
92886Re: [OT] Why there are so few New Grads who want to doChristopher Wright2008/04/18 
92915Re: [OT] Why there are so few New Grads who want to doKyle Stoker 2008/04/18 
92919Re: [OT] Why there are so few New Grads who want to doJason Krantz2008/04/18