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Subject: Re: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYS
Author: anlafuente_at_etsii.upm.es
Date: 2008-04-07 17:51:43

Dear Ram,

I'm dealing with a problem similar to yours and I also needed the bulk
modulus of a fluid which, in my case, is air. I was very curious about
how you had estimated this value for a non-solid material. Is not so
straightforwrd for me and i'm kind of new in all these things. Could you
please give me a hand on this?

Thanks in advance

Regards

Antonio

> Dear Keith,
>
> Thanks for the reply. It is a good approach. Since, the fluid is going to
> fill the gap generated due to structural deflections, the fluid
> properties are trivial. First, I tried with the bulk modulus of the fluid
> , by finding the equivalent Young's modulus. But later realised that it
> won't work as the fluid is not actually "compressed" in the analysis. But
> is there any base for assuming E=1 and nu=0?. Does it reflect any free
> space?. Kindly explain me.
>
> I've tried a similar approach, with some trial values for E and nu. After
> the analysis is over, I noted the initial volume, then issued UPGEOM
> command to find the final volume. But I couldn't match the answer with
> that of the test value.
>
> Thanks & Regards,
> Ram Balasubramanian
> Senior Engineer - CAE,
> Chennai, India.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keith DiRienz"
> To: "ANSYS User Discussion List"
> Subject: RE: [Xansys] [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYS
> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:28:48 -0800
>
>
> Ram,
> I would suggest meshing the fluid volume with SOLID45's with a
> modulus of 1 psi and a NUXY of zero. Then use NLGEOM,ON and do the
> analysis. You can then get the volume of the fluid using ETABLE
> and SSUM. Do the analysis at zero pressure and at your actual
> pressure to get the change in volume. Below is a simple input file
> to illustrate the procedure.
> Keith
>
> Keith DiRienz, P.E.
> FEA Technologies
> Email: fea-technologies_at_cox.net
> Web site: http://members.cox.net/fea-technologies
> "A man with a watch knows what time it is, a man with 2 watches is
> never sure."
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ! This sample input file creates a block whose
> ! exterior is meshed with SHELL63 and the interior
> ! is meshed with SOLID45's which have an EX=1 and NUXY=0.
> ! Internal pressure is imposed on the shells.
> ! NLGEOM is activated. After solution in /POST1
> ! the volume of the SOLID45's is obtained. You can do
> ! solution with zero pressure to get the original volume.
> !
> /prep7
> block,0,2,0,2,0,2
> et,1,63
> et,2,45
> type,1
> mat,1
> real,1
> esize,.25
> amesh,all
> type,2
> mat,2
> real,2
> vmesh,all
> !
> r,1,.1
> !
> ex,1,30e6
> nuxy,1,.3
> !
> ex,2,1
> nuxy,2,0
> !
> esel,s,type,,1
> nsle
> sf,all,pres,1000
> !
> nsel,s,loc,x,0
> nsel,r,loc,y,0
> nsel,r,loc,z,0
> d,all,ux,0,0,,,uy,uz
> nsel,s,loc,x,0
> nsel,r,loc,y,0
> nsel,r,loc,z,2
> d,all,ux,0,0,,,uy
> nsel,s,loc,x,0
> nsel,r,loc,y,2
> nsel,r,loc,z,0
> d,all,ux,0
> !
> allsel
> finish
> !
> /solu
> nlgeom,on
> lnsrch,on
> save
> !
> solve
> finish
> !
> /post1
> esel,s,type,,2
> nsle
> !
> etable,volu,volu
> !
> ssum ! This prints the new volume
> !
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> At 12:16 PM 4/4/2008, you wrote:
> > Thanks Chris and Anker, Chris:You are right. If the profiles of the
> parts
> > are simple cylinders , I can use the thick cylinder formulae to
> calculate
> > the volume change. But in case of complex geometry, I need a tool
> for
> > easily calculating this change. So I raised this query. Jan:Thanks
> for
> > the reply. You've guided me in another possible direction,i.e.,
> without
> > modelling the fluid. Can you kindly explain further , how to
> extract the
> > face elements and change in volume. Any small clue will also be
> very
> > helpful for me. Sorry, for the delayed response, on this thread. I
> was
> > trying other methods for this problem.
> >
> > Thanks & Regards,
> > Ram Balasubramanian
> > Senior Engineer - CAE,
> > Chennai, India.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jan Christian Anker"
> > To: "ANSYS User Discussion List"
> > Subject: RE: [Xansys] [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYS
> > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:29:46 +0100
> >
> >
> > component. I want to find the additional volume consumed due to
> > structural
> > deflection.>
> > < How to proceed with such analysis?. Fluid 80 element doesn't
> appear
> > to
> > suit this problem.>
> >
> > Why model the fluid? Assuming that you know the pressure everywhere
> > in the
> > fluid, you can apply the pressure to the wetted surfaces and do a
> > static
> > analysis. Knowing the displacements, you can get the volume change
> by
> > summing the volumes between the un-deformed element face and the
> > deformed
> > and displaced element face.
> >
> > I have done this in the past in APDL (but cannot find the code
> > anymore).
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Jan Christian Anker
> > __________________________________________________
> > | ANKER - ZEMER Engineering AS
> > | e-mail: jc.anker_at_anker-zemer.no
> > | Phone: +47 22 06 44 21
> > | Visitors' Address: Aslakveien 14 (Inng. A), R

Posts possibly associated with message #92724AuthorDateScore
92350[STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSRam Balasubramanian2008/03/14 
92379Re: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSChristopher Wright2008/03/15 
92381Re: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSJan Christian Anker2008/03/15 
92692Re: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSRam Balasubramanian2008/04/04 
92693Re: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSKeith DiRienz2008/04/04 
92699Re: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSRam Balasubramanian2008/04/05 
92700Re: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSKeith DiRienz2008/04/05 
92701Re: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSRam Balasubramanian2008/04/05 
92724Re: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSanlafuente_at_etsii.upm.es2008/04/07 
92725Re: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSanlafuente_at_etsii.upm.es2008/04/07 
92730Re: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSRam Balasubramanian2008/04/08 
92731Re: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSanlafuente_at_etsii.upm.es2008/04/08 
92732Re: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSChristopher Wright2008/04/08 
92736RES: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSAndre Beim2008/04/08 
92748Re: RES: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSanlafuente_at_etsii.upm.es2008/04/09 
92750Re: RES: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSFrank Exius2008/04/09 
92752Re: RES: [STRU] Fluid Volume Displacement in ANSYSRam Balasubramanian2008/04/09